西北兆: 【10/19/2016 Wed 8:30 pm 公司职业发展 career development讲座预告】我们非常荣幸邀请到刚刚从汇丰银行(HSBC Bank)副总裁位置退休下来的Paul Ip先生上来和我们大家互动。我们大家看到公司中,尤其是管理阶层,华人寥寥无几的现状。想必大家都为此感到无奈,不平。针对华人在企业管理层如何应付玻璃天花板的现实问题,叶先生将根据他多年在公司高层的管理经验和我们大家聊聊我们可以做些什么,不可以做些什么。我们华人智力超群,但是情商,street smart有很大的硬伤。希望通过这次互动,对于我们中相当一部群友在职业上升阶段能及时提供一些建议。欢迎大家预留时间,积极参与互动。

时间到了,有请叶先生 作为群主,我先问第一个问题。只知道叶先生来自香港,除了成功的职业和优雅的谈吐,其他的还真的不知道多少。能请叶先生先介绍一下自己,在什么地方长大,在哪里读的书,父母是做什么的,家庭是怎样的。。。有什么爱好,退休之后,有何打算。。。

Paul Ip: [audio] 大家好。

西北兆: Please feel free to talk to us in either Chinese or English. Cantonese doesn’t work very well here.

Paul Ip: [audio] Hi everyone. My name is Paul Ip. I have been in the United States for 37 years. I was born and raised in Hong Kong, so my Mandarin is not very well. That’s why I want to converse in English instead. I am retired, just retired for 2 months. And my parents are also alive. They are doing very well. I like golf during my leisure time. Also I sing a little bit. I spend a lot of time in my retirement help other people. I join an organization called ACHIEF. This is to help Chinese people.

西北兆: Could you type out the organization you set up?

Paul Ip: ACHIEF- All Chinese Heritage Integrity Funds 華賢勉志基金

西北兆: If I heard correctly, you enjoy singing? You know we have a lot of talents in this field here. We even have a singing group led by 李春香女士.

Paul Ip: [audio] I heard about that group.

西北兆: I will make sure getting you hooked up with them:-)

Paul Ip: [audio] Thank you.

西北兆: Where did you go for your college and what was your major?

Paul Ip: [audio] I went to Portland State University. I got a business degree in 1982. My minor was psychology.

西北兆: 华人都有名校情结,能在这方面谈谈您的看法吗?

Paul Ip: [audio] Yeah I know a lot people go with Ivy League schools. They also have pretty compassion with their school. Yes, you know, I have not asked much, because Portland State is a city college. I went there to finish my college education and left. I am involved from time to time with the alumni association, not as much as I would like to.

郑丽影: Hi, Paul, thanks for doing this. I’d like to know what achief specifically do to help Chinese people? Low interest loan, scholarship? Anything like this?

Paul Ip: [audio] ACHIEF is an organization for charity fund whose mission to help needy Chinese people, people in desperate financial needs. We go in and help them to go through that hard times. This is specifically for Chinese, Chinese from basically everywhere. We focus on Chinese metropolitan area, also in Vancouver. We also support culture activities, culture events. Make sure that we bring out culture events for all the Chinese, for them to enjoy. ACHIEF is probably a separate topic we can talk about, but we don’t have time tonight to do that.

西北兆: So the success in career is not necessarily directly related to where you attend school. What you have achieved not only as a person but in terms of career development, you are quite successful. So what do you think that matters the most for someone’s career development?

风之魂: 可以自由提问吗?

Paul Ip: [audio] Thank you for the compliment. Just like anything else, if you have a good foundation, that helps to set up a successful to career. Going to school sets up a good foundation for you. Higher education is important, much more important now than in the past. Right now, a lot of people get Master degree. In my generation, Master degree was not that crucial. So a good educational foundation is very important. You can ask any questions about career development. Thank you.

西北兆: @风之魂 absolutely, not structured at all.

西北兆: Could you talk about your career history in 汇丰银行? We know you were retired from the VP position.

Paul Ip: [audio]Sure, I was hired by the bank as a teller to begin with, so I started from the very bottom. When I graduated from school I walked down the street and saw the Hong Kong Shanghai Banking Corporation. Since I came from Hong Kong, I was very impressed that there was a Hong Kong bank at the time. So I went in there and applied for a position. At the time they had a teller position open for someone who can speak Cantonese. Since I could I applied for that position and got accepted. Since then I sort of climbed up the ladder, worked from teller to new accounts, to accounting, to import/export, to commercial lending, I stayed in commercial lending for while until I became VP in commercial lending. It is a long period.

风之魂: 大部分人都知道对华人的玻璃天花板,我们自己在公司里也感受得到。应该如何最好地应付这个呢? 谢谢

Paul Ip: [audio] I think the most important thing is to enhance your own knowledge. Knowledge is power. If you have a lot of knowledge about what you do, then you are ahead of other people already. Chinese people tend to be more hard-working, that is important. The main ingredient in my book is to work hard, as hard as you can, and learn as much as you can as you go, rather than nitpicking on getting better pay or getting a better position. You need to set a good foundation for yourself first. And then English is very important, whether it is verbal English or written English. You got to be proficient in your English, if you want to climb up to the executive level. That is the way it is, otherwise you are being discriminated more. [audio] I remember when I first came to the United States, my English wasn’t very well. I was 22 years old. So the first thing I did in school was I try to learn English as much as I can. Look in the mirror, repeat a line, line by line, over and over again to imitate their accent. I believe that if I am here in the United States for good, my English got to be good. That is very important. It turned out to be an asset for me. If you speak good English in corporate world, that is an advantage.

西北兆: English (weep)

Paul Ip: Yes

刘鸽: Agree with you

Paul Ip: Thanks

yinlin: You have vision

西北兆: I lost the opportunity to lead an organization of 2,000+ physicians because of the fact – I spoke one language they didn’t know – Chinglish.

凡草: Hi Paul, can you share with us how you chose your career path? What’s your advice to younger people (new college grads or even high schoolers) who are uncertain what they want.

Paul Ip: [audio] To be honest, lots of people, especially young people, don’t know what they want to do, until they actually get into the business world, the work environment. The develop their interest in certain job once they get hired by somebody. And then pursue in that area. Unless you have a vision about being a professional, like a doctor or a lawyer, things like that, most people, they really don’t have a particular goal, which is fine. I did not have a goal. My only goal is to pursue business. That is why I got a business degree. And I did not want to specialize in certain business area, finance, marketing, I got a general business administration degree. That is how I started, which is fine.

西北兆: Get your feet wet first. Don’t just do day dreaming.

Paul Ip: [audio] One thing I want to add is that some people I saw that, at one time, computer science was very hot and people wanted to pursue computer science, but not knowing enough about this particular subject of career. It is not something very fun. Sometimes, you have to sit in the office to create a computer program all day long. So it might be a boring job, not for you. I think as your people, you need to have an open mind do some research to make sure this is something you like for the rest of your life. If you change your career midway, it will be very difficult. [audio] I totally agree with you. Some people are just dreaming all day long, but not taking action. I think you are absolutely right. Get your feet wet first. If you like what you are doing just pursue that. Learn as much as you can. Be focused.

西北兆: These days in corporate, we see so many Indians in management. What is your take on this?

Paul Ip: [audio] Before I entertain another question, I just want tell you a little bit about what I did when I was with HSBC. I was a commercial lender. I had a 300 million dollar portfolio. My focus was pursuing middle market business on the commercial side. The company I pursue were 250 million dollar sales a year or higher. Most of the customers I pursue have sales of over 500 million dollars. I was pursuing pretty big business and in this business I was pretty much the only Chinese. I was the only Chinese in this field that was not born in the US. [audio]

西北兆: One thing for sure Indians is very good at 溜须拍马. Based on my own experience, Americans are the same in terms of flattering bosses. For most Chinese, we are not good at it. Do you see it in the same way? In other words, we tend to be book smart but not street smart.

Paul Ip: [audio]In America, corporate focuses are earnings. You have lots of so called Indians in America. The bottom line is that they are looking for performance. That is what you want to focus on. To swim in the corporate world sometimes is not easy. Not only you have to perform, but you have to outsmart other people around you, because everybody wants to pursue management. You need to outsmart them. Being Chinese is even harder, particularly those who are not born in the United States, with language barriers. Yeah. It is not easy to handle that.

西北兆: How much truth in this statement?

yinlin: Are you naturally born with good people skill and publics peeking?

Paul Ip: [audio]Yeah. I see that. I see a lot of people kissing asses. This is something I definitely go against. I don’t advise Chinese to do the same. I am always convinced that if you are hardworking and if you have a lot knowledge about what you do, you will excel, rather than just killing asses to your boss. In fact, in my case, I told my boss that I am not a person that kisses asses. If I see anything wrong with you, I will mention it. Mention it in a nice way and in a constructive way. And he is appreciative of that.

西北兆: Yes, at my age, I do trust a lot in DNA (遗传因素) (smile)

yinlin: 你讲话中气很足。一点也不像退休的人。平常怎么锻炼养生?

Paul Ip: [audio]Well I am not sure if I am naturally born with good people skill, but I tend to enjoy working with people and do public speeches. In my career I did a lot of those. My two daughters are pretty much in the same field. They are all in the PR area. Maybe it is in our DNA. I don’t know. I definitely enjoy it and it helped my career as well

西北兆: He misled me when we first met. I thought I were older than Paul.

yinlin: Very energetic, in your gene as well?

Nordstrom: [audio] Hey Paul. Do you think the real estate price in the Portland area is going to go up? Or do you think there is a problem?

刘鸽: Interesting question

Paul Ip: [audio] Thanks for the compliment. Actually I am pretty conscious with my health. I am always loud when I talk. It is probably in my DNA, not necessary from my good health, though. I am always conscious with my health. That is why I decided to retire earlier so that I can enjoy life.

西北兆: I agree (thumb up) 歧视 is a sensitive word. You got to see a lot in your career. What is your best advice to the people in terms of how to handling it and even growing out of it?

Paul Ip: [audio] I think the real estate prices still have room to grow. Remember Oregon is a manufacturing based economy. We got into the recession later. Later than other people. We recover actually slower than other people. Now that we have recovered from the recession, we are actually still sustaining from that recovery for a little while. That is why I believe the real estate prices in the Portland area will continue to grow, but at a slower pace. I don’t think the bubble will burst any time soon.

西北兆: That is a really good advice! Good balance and do speak out when offended. You will get more respect.

Beilei Zhu: I agree, focus on important things, and stand up for ourselves. (thumb up)

Paul Ip: [audio] Yeah. That is a good question. The law protects us from being discriminated. Discrimination exists. To handle that, at least in my work place, I mind my own business, I work hard, I perform. That in itself speaks of value to the company. If you present value to the company, discrimination is less impacted on you. Obviously you have to be smart to handle different issues and be sensitive. Don’t be afraid to speak up, though. If you feel like you are being discriminated in a big way, I don’t want you to be nit-picking, say so to your boss. Don’t be afraid.

西北兆: For out next generation (ABCs), English should not be an issue. But I don’t know why I have a feeling that most of them are still missing something partly because of the influence of culture. Do you feel the same way?

Nordstrom: [audio] Do you know about the Seattle Bellevue area?

西北兆: Just my own observation

Beilei Zhu: We should also build alliances in work place, so we have help system too.

Paul Ip: [audio] Absolutely. I think a lot of Chinese are not outspoken. They hide their feelings. I think that is wrong. We should speak up just like anybody else if there is something not right. We also got to be sensitive and don’t nit-pick on things. But when there are genuine discriminatory acts, we should speak out.

西北兆: @Beilei Zhu (thumb up)

Paul Ip: [audio] I think it is really case by case. I have a lot of ABC friends. They do very well in their career. It really depends on the personality. In general, Chinese tend to be a little bit shy and conservative.

Beilei Zhu: Time to time, I was always able to find mentors in different stages of my career, they can always provide helpful advices or networking.

Paul Ip: [audio] Yes I know a little bit about Seattle area. HSBC has a branch in Seattle. I totally agree we should build alliances in work places. In fact, you know, the principle is to help others so that others will help you in return. I always support the idea of helping each other. Don’t be afraid of teaching others what you have learned. I know Chinese are conservative. They hold back something they don’t want teach things to other people because they are afraid that someday others will accelerate and surpass them. I don’t think that is a proper attitude. I think by helping people, people will help you in return.

yinlin: Do you have website for ACHIEF?

Paul Ip: ACHIEF.org

西北兆: I think we need to develop a mentoring system in a systematic way. 需要一个机制,否则就是个人运气问题了。

Paul Ip: Agree

西北兆: Is ACHIEF doing sth in providing mentoring ‘service’ to our kids at schools?

yinlin: You are doing a great thing helping Chinese (thumb up) (thumb up)

Ming: I really benefited from my mentors in the early stage of my career. I suggest we set up a one on one mentor program in Chinese community

西北兆: People like you is a huge asset itself.

Paul Ip: [audio] Since ACHIEF is a charity fund, it does provide programs itself. But it partners with nonprofit organizations, like the Asian Health Service Center, to provide programs to help Chinese. Ming I think that is a great idea.

西北兆: @Ming (thumb up)(thumb up)(thumb up) Now I know where to seek a partner if we want to offer what Ming has in mind (laugh)

Paul Ip: [audio] I enjoy helping Chinese people. I love to see Chinese people to be united in the Portland area. We don’t have many Chinese here. We’ve got to be united.

Ming: @Paul Ip I’m with you

西北兆: For Chinese community, what is your vision to have us united considering the complexity of the population?

Paul Ip: Thanks

Beilei Zhu: Have a big heart is #1 requirements@西北兆

Paul Ip: [audio] I think engaging in community services is one way to help each other. Not only are we able to help each other through community service, but also gain some friendship. Again, the old Chinese saying 关系 is important. We need to establish relationships among us, in order to be able to help each other out.

西北兆: The question might be too big but we desperately need a direction at this point.

Paul Ip: Yes

西北兆: @Beilei Zhu That is all I have (laugh)

Beilei Zhu: @西北兆 ,bingo (thumb up)

西北兆: Paul, do you go to church? No need to comment if too private?

Paul Ip: No I don’t.

西北兆: The reason I ask is we Chinese don’t have a place to social compared with other communities. If we don’t talk or don’t feel comfortable when talking, it will be a problem when trying to express yourself.

Paul Ip: [audio]What about various Chinese organizations in town, I mean they have quite a bit of membership as I understand. Some are involved in politics, some are not. I am involved in ACHIEF, which is organization to help people, but also involved in Hong Kong club, because of my langrage and my background. But I believe there are organizations similar to that that will provide a forum for people to talk about various things that is helpful as well, obviously, Chinese church will be a good forum as well. [audio]I believe in specking up about various issues that you feel for it. I also believe it is not necessary to get everybody to agree, but you should respect other people’s opinions as well.

西北兆: That is true.

Simon: WeChat and FB keep most people busy socializing already!

Paul Ip: [audio] For sure Simon.

西北兆: It has its shortcomings. With short sentences and abbreviations, lots of thought got ‘lost in translation’.

Simon: The new generation “talks” with fingers now.

西北兆: haha, that is also true, even unfortunately. What about other communities?

Paul Ip: [audio]As they say, changes are the only constants.

yinlin: Besides ACHIEF, what else do you plan to do?

Simon: We need the Big Brother Big Sister club!

yinlin: Yes

Paul Ip: [audio] Well I don’t know yet. Right now I focal on my family. My wife just got a foot surgery, so I spend pretty much 100% of my time taking care of her. So I don’t have any particular plan going forward in my retirement. But my thought is to spend more time in the family, and help out my community, especially Chinese community.

西北兆: @Simon 明天就可以给出一个方案 (laugh)

Simon: You are efficient!

西北兆: Paul, I got to say you are the great asset in our community. You retired early. That is a good news to us as we can exploit your talents (thanks)

Paul Ip: [audio] Thank you Hong-Cheng

西北兆: One hour passed so quickly. Anyone else has any more questions to Paul? He is not going anywhere though. Thank you soooo much, Paul! We didn’t talk very much today but every word counts. I learnt a lot personally. We have lots of thoughts and in the middle of forming initiatives. We definitely need your help and support.

Paul Ip: [audio] You are most Welcome. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about career development, it is a very interest subject. Good luck everyone to your career development Thank you and good night.

西北兆: If no more questions, I think we can conclude today’s 互动 with Paul. Best wishes to your wife’s recovery too!

Paul Ip: 謝謝😎

郑丽影: @Paul Ip Great conversation, great tips and great suggestions! Thanks! (hand shake) (thanks) (thanks)

Paul Ip: (Namaste)

西北兆: Paul will be even more popular than being a VP in the bank (laugh)

gailmaw 陳笑芳: BTW, ACHIEF website is achiefpdx.org

西北兆: @gailmaw陳笑芳 您们做的工作实在是很有意义的啊 (thanks) 大家不知道,一年多前,Alisha的Kids First Project刚启动的时候,@gailmaw陳笑芳 不知道怎么知道了,亲自送来一百元的捐款 (thank)

gailmaw 陳笑芳: 多谢!大家也同為社区努力!

yinlin: Paul 讲得非常好!can someone type it up?

西北兆: 所以,220集会准备过程中,@gailmaw陳笑芳 是我们联系的第一位老侨社团领袖。

yinlin: 你们真是好样的是我们的榜样!

西北兆: 现在华人社区互动的新局面似乎可以追溯到@gailmaw陳笑芳 的那第一步 (thumb up)

Nancy 春燕: @Paul Ip Thanks a lot for sharing! Very helpful!

Paul Ip: You’re welcome

Nancy 春燕: @Paul Ip I missed The Hour. May I ask one more question about discrimination here or separately? (smile)

西北兆: 可以在这里啊,大家都会受益的 (laugh)

Paul Ip: Sure

Ming: @Paul Ip thanks for making the time to share your experience and insight with us. Appreciate it

Liwen 张丽文: 刚想到一问题:我们在公司里的提升不如老印等,为何我们要设一对一的mentor program?况且我们的小孩大部分都会上大学(甚至名牌大学),学校里一般会有这种mentor programs。 Oops,建议

Ming: I was not thinking about my own kid when I suggested that

Liwen 张丽文: I am not questioning to one individual, but to the suggestion itself. According to texted messages, as we are not as good as Indians in corporations in terms of positions etc. (general speaking), our kids or your Chinese should learn from other races. Oops, young Chinese

Nancy 春燕: @Paul Ip 今天聽到一單歧視,同公司別的部門的華人朋友告訴我,她們西人老闆不予許他們幾個人在辦公室講中文。我覺得這是歧視華人。我們是國際公司,德國同事互相講德文,法國同事互相講法文等等,沒有老美去抱怨。這老美居然公然要求手下華裔員工不准在辦公室講中文。 雖然現在欺負的不直接是我,但是覺得應該挺身做點事情。我晚上就在考慮怎樣處理最好。 那發話的老美跟我一個級別,有時會碰頭開會。跟她直接談估計效果可能不會太好,她的所做所為證明她歧視到骨子了。要是去找HR:1)我覺得直接管我們那HR不會很公正的來處理這事 2)我要出面又有踩了我同事腳趾頭之嫌。 不知您覺得應該怎樣不卑不亢地處理這事呢?

Ming: I’m part of the mentor program of northwest women executive alliance. The founders of this alliance are the female executives of Wells Fargo, K&L Gates, New Season, KPMG and PSU. It’s a one on one program and Is dedicated to help more females get into C-suites. Am a mentee, I’ve learned a lot. I think it’s a great system and we should pass on our knowledge to the next generation

Liwen 张丽文: @Paul Ip wish your wife will recovery soon!

Nancy 春燕: @Ming I am interested in the mentioned mentoring program. Added you separately.

Paul Ip: @Liwen张丽文 Thanks

yinlin: @Paul Ip physical therapy may be helpful for speedy recovery.

Liwen 张丽文: Share my two cents on mentoring: it is better to have somebody in the same industry or same function (e.g.: engineering area, marketing area) as a mentor. So that mentoring also gives you networking and helps next move in your career. @Nancy 春燕 as far as I know, Chinese people speaks in Chinese when people in other races present – it is not courtesy

石珏: 大家应该尽可能参加toastmaster club. https://www.toastmasters.org/Find-a-Club

Nancy 春燕: @Liwen张丽文 thanks for your response! Since you at me, sure, everyone knows about that. We are international company, diversity is one of culture. You hear other languages as well. Principle is DO NOT bother others. Everyone follow it. Picking Chinese ONLY is discrimination. I am trying to help them, even I am not the one involved directly. Criticizing them at this moment doesn’t help. I am communicating with more friends separately and hearing some very professional suggestion.

Liwen张丽文: @Nancy 春燕 you are very welcome! I just share my experience and view. I worked in a Danish public firm before heading to business school. I had colleagues from Denmark, UK, Austria, South America, and others. We use English in office. Danish colleagues did talk to each other in hometown language when they were alone.

Paul Ip: The following is my advice to Nancy. I like to share with you all for your reference: 一般來說,在公司講非英文語言是我們都不鼓勵的行為。原因很明顯。除非沒有第三者在場。例如在関上門的辦公室裡。但如果老闆只不準許中國人講中文而明顯地許可別的外語在公司使用,這便是歧視行為。我也曾経有此經驗。我見議不要與同級或低級同事談這問題而直接跟直屬上司討論。除非那個同事能作見證。跟上司談論這問題時,最好是心平氣和,用請教的語氣跟他商量。所謂先禮後兵。希望得到他的認同和接受。因而正視及解決問題。重點我認為是贊同在公司講外語是不當。目的是要公司處事要一視同仁。 我覺得妳待同事出頭不是太方便。最好是給妳同事一點意見。正如我説,叫他們好好跟我們的director 談談。如果不能得到一個合理的結果,進一步是跟director 的上司談。或是跟HR談。目的是1. 解決這問題,2. 留下一個記錄,方便日後之用。

西北兆: 同意Paul的说法,说到留下记录,补充一点,是美国人常用的,我也是尽力在学习的一种做法,就是在会后,通过公司电邮总结谈话要点。不仅可以留下记录,还可以保证双方理解是一致的。如果想再进一步的话,就顺便把另外一个重要的人物,如上级主管,加到收件人里面。

八名志同道合的華人早組成華賢勵志基金會 (2015)

Paul Ip: 正確。這個是本埠首創百份之百帮助华人的慈善基金會。希望大家大力將此訊息傳播。好使有需要的华人可以獲得一個救助的門路。如果有需要,我們可以做一個像昨晚的討論,詳細介紹华賢勉志基金給大家認識。